WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING

Pastor Bryan Ross has continued to maintain his position in how he wishes to be critical, in his lesson notes, number 281, on my position. At this point of writing, we are now some way along in an ongoing back and forth (see previous entries on this blog).

In assessing Bryan Ross’ demeanour, he seems to be most upset about my Pentecostalism. I should point out, however, that I am actually a Word and Spirit Christian, which movement is really a mixture of Word of Faith doctrine and takes an equal measure of Fundamentalist, Reformed and Puritan information (most especially in regards to the King James Bible).

I am sure that Pastor Ross does not ascertain how many different views there are that are labelled “Pentecostal”, nor the difference between “Word of Faith” and “Word and Spirit”. I expect also that he doesn’t grasp this because his own views are cessationist, and because it is common and easy for Baptists to view Pentecostals as all the same, when in fact there are wide differences between them.

It seems very evident that Ross appears to want to frame the Pure Cambridge Edition of the King James Bible as having some Pentecostal specificity, whereas the reality is that this is an Edition edited by Cambridge in the circa early 1900s.

ROSS PUTS UP UNFAIR BARRIERS

It’s an easy tactic for people who want to use an appearance of scholarship that they say, “you didn’t back that point with verifiable facts”, like not citing sources or something. It’s a trick done by people like Rick Norris too, who act like they can’t accept something because they want to act like information has no credibility.

The question at hand is whether Cambridge did edit the King James Bible to make a particular Edition which has been printed many times and can be identified.

We live in objective reality, and even Professor Norton has mentioned a few things, but somehow, Ross will deny or question because no information has been extracted from any archival or written record. We have the empirical textual evidence while no archival information has been forthcoming. Ross cannot blame me for CUP’s poor institutional memory.

Ross seems to fluctuate on this point because he tries to make every individual edition, each with its little errata or whatever, as different to every other. And while there are editions, there is also an Edition, which is the same editorial text which those editions are following.

It is strange that Ross apparently cannot tell the difference between Cambridge King James Bibles printed in the 20^th century, that there is a clear conformity to an Edition in a whole raft of printings throughout that century. That is to say, that if we had a matrix of particular editorial readings, we would find a whole lot of editions matching together, agreeing completely on their editorial form, and “substantively” in their own presswork.

ROSS’ ONGOING CONFUSION ABOUT THE IDENTIFICATION LIST

When we (the Elders of Victory Faith Centre) were looking at the editions of the KJB, I came up with a series of test passages that could be used to identify this Edition. This was happening in about 2001. The identifying of the PCE was in making sure that a Bible being tested matched all the readings.

So this could be considered as a short matrix of measurement to see whatever Bible you were looking at, whether at a shop or you owned, was matching the PCE or not.

The basis of this was several articles by King James Bible only people who talked about publishers making changes, or differences in meaning in modernised or other editions of the KJB. Further, people at that time, who were prominent in the KJBO movement, did say that they preferred Cambridge over Oxford, and reference was usually made to Joshua 19:2, etc.

I personally was only wondering about the difference between “Spirit” and “spirit” in 1 John 5:8. Everything else was fine, and all the differences were on a meaning and historical basis (e.g. going to 1611 or what was proper, etc.) At that time people would even say “Savior” is erroneous, you have to have “Saviour” because it has seven letters.

Because in comparing editions, one of the areas people were looking at was the word “Spirit”, that was obviously an issue. Note, this was nothing to do with Pentecostalism. There was some theological aspect, but that was more in passing and simplified. For example, unlearned people, if they were shown a KJV verse that had “spirit”, they might automatically think it should be changed to “Spirit” because that’s “proper”.

So, the tests were just the product of looking at editions, and they were not driven by any focus on Pentecostalism, as those discussing the issues were Baptists.

Now, when I understood that 1 John 5:8 was lower case in many old editions, and that the word “spirit” appeared elsewhere lower case in all normal KJV editions, I then tried to think how 1 John 5:8 could be right.

As a particular kind of Pentecostal, I certainly could see how it could be lower case. But that was me thinking now in line with my theology, but my theology was a broad evangelical one that includes sanctification doctrine, etc. I saw how 1 John 5:8 could match in with that.

Now Bryan Ross has tried to make it some sort of narrow Pentecostal choice that 1 John 5:8 was accepted as lower case “spirit”, but it was, as I say, me looking at it as a Pentecostal Christian with evangelical doctrine.

Bryan Ross has tried to read in Pentecostalism to the fact that six of the 12 tests to identify the PCE are to do with the word “Spirit” or “spirit”. But that obviously was not the case.

A few years later, when I was actually using the tests specifically to give historical, logical and theological reasons for why one was right and one not so good, I obviously argued as a person having Pentecostal doctrine, but that is only part of what is to be taken as my view.

What Pentecostal doctrine would be involved in Joshua 19:2?

And as I have had to constantly say to Bryan Ross, who seems to be stuck in a rut, we are talking about pneumatology and Trinitarian doctrine (in relation to Matthew 4:1) so the whole matter cannot be “Pentecostal” as he seems to obsessively imply.

EDITIONS WHICH MATCH SOME OF THE TESTS

There are various editions which may, even historically, match some or many of the 12 diagnostic readings. That is to be expected for various reasons. Ross seems to not understand this, or keeps on trying to make a non-point about it.

Yes, there are editions that might match some tests, because to have those readings or editorial choices in those places are good. The PCE is measurable and identifiable because it matches all the tests.

The tests are not places where Cambridge made changes when they made the PCE. That’s not what the tests are for. If you want to know about changes, just look at the Victorian Cambridge readings and compare them to the PCE.

THE CUP LETTER

I do not want to get bogged down in trivialities, but it is apparent Ross wants to milk all he can by brandishing about a CUP letter from 2010. That letter shows that CUP knew very little about their own print history, but it seems apparent that Ross is gleeful at their ignorant statements which he is repeating as if “facts” from the lion’s mouth.

CUP wrote, “Some new Cambridge editions were originated during the 1920s and 1930s, apparently using as their pattern copy a version that (nearly) accords with your expectations.”

So, a manager at CUP in 2010 writes that some of their current editions are close to being PCE (they are post-PCE), and doesn’t seem to realise that there were many printings of the PCE and of near-PCEs (doctored Victorian editions) between 1910 and 1985 (and later).

Cambridge were talking about editions from the 1920s and 1930s that they had at hand which they knew, in 2010, were differing in 1 John 5:8, and perhaps Acts 11:12 and/or verse 28. It appears as if Ross is making out as if CUP was saying that their editions in the 1920s and 1930s did not match the PCE. This is blatantly wrong, and I am questioning why Ross did not explain the situation clearly about what CUP actually said.

The reason why Ross wants to misinterpret, I think, is because he wants to say that no printed Bible from Cambridge is a PCE. I think he wants to deliberately not acknowledge that an Edition is a set of editorial readings, but instead he wants to take individual printings and use some minutiae in any copy (no doubt like a missing full stop somewhere that the printing plates didn’t ink properly) and say that this constitutes an edition that is separate. Thus he fabricates his main argument that basically the PCE first appeared on the Bible Protector website in 2007.

Ross goes on to make his summary of CUP’s letter, saying, “inconsistencies in Bible Protector’s identifier lists”. Again Ross is not representing the reality. While he is communicating a mistaken view by CUP, he does not clarify with his own understanding that CUP were equating the 12 test places (a diagnostic matrix) as the same as a list of specific editorial differences between common editions. This was wrong of them to do, because they were confusing a list of diagnostic markers with a list of editorial differences. It is telling that Ross doesn’t clarify to explain that, rather, it appears he wants to magnify in CUP’s quizzing onto my work. He is employing a tactic of casting doubt by proxy, a technique much used by Rick Norris.

Now in case Ross is ignorant, I will explain: the 12 tests are tests for any edition where the 12 tests must align as based upon specific points in the PCE, where the PCE will have all 12, and only having all 12 is a pass. Besides this, I did a comprehensive (but not completely exhaustive) comparison between London, Oxford and the Victorian Cambridge editions, so that what changes from a Victorian Cambridge to the PCE could be known, what were the main differences between Oxford and Cambridge, and what wrong changes had been made in the Concord and modern Cambridge editions.

Ross says that the CUP letter, “is a documented non-endorsement of a singular, consciously created, Cambridge-recognized ‘PCE’ edition”. But of course, that’s Ross’ wishful thinking, the actual evidence of printed Bibles shows the opposite of his view, but I guess he just wants to be ignorant or not to accept the actual facts.

ROSS STILL TRYING TO WIN POINTS ON THE TESTS

Bryan Ross has made a lot more about Pentecostalism and the 12 tests than what really exists.

Ross has repeatedly tried to make a case that I used Pentecostalism to make the 12 tests, or some of them at least, and/or that they were for doctrinal reasons (i.e. Pentecostal).

He says, “I find myself compelled to clarify why such a claim cannot bear doctrinal or methodological weight.” I will explain it again. At that time KJBOs were looking at differences in editions, and the case of the word “spirit” was one of the issues mentioned, e.g. in Genesis 1:2, etc. Now obviously there is a certain level of doctrinal bearing in this, but the reality is that the discussions around Joshua 19:2 and Jeremiah 34:16 etc. at the time were around that Cambridge was right, and that it matched 1611 and these sorts of things.

While some theological study or element was broadly involved, things like old editions and so on were also a factor. The 12 tests were not selected on specifically weighty grounds, they were in fact a set of verses to test editions with.

A year or two or three later, I then decided to use these important test markers to really study them out, to create a hermeneutical approach for studying editorial differences. My own Guide the PCE is my real time demonstration and study of these.

Ross says, “When one examines your published Guide, it is beyond dispute that your rationale for half of the twelve PCE diagnostics are grounded in explicitly Pentecostal categories”. This is Ross’ “paranoia” or “obsession”. He sees the word “Spirit” or “spirit” and that’s what he thinks. A Pentecostal conspiracy.

Here are many facts:

1. The difference between “Spirit” and “spirit” as far as the text of the KJB has not been an explicit Pentecostal doctrine at all.
2. The selecting of the test passages was on empirical, comparative grounds, not with some special loyalty to Pentecostalism.
3. How could that be the case anyway, since the readings include some from 1611, those from 1629, in 1769, and in Victorian Cambridge editions, as also passing through the hands of the PCE editor in the early 1900s with no change.
4. I wrote the drafts of my guide from late 2002 through several years, and it was only in this process that I began to really look deeply at “proving” with theological reasons why the PCE was right by showing a method of editorial-testing hermeneutics, which I demonstrated on the 12 tests to furnish the reader with examples. Since I am Pentecostal, I gave reasoning from my theological perspective.
5. The word “Spirit” being capital in the Bible and the doctrine of pneumatology are not specifically Pentecostal: they are also Baptist doctrines.
6. King James Bible only people were writing about the case on the word “Spirit”/”spirit” in various places before I wrote my book.

Yes, it is a fact that King James Bible onlyists were mentioning the word “Spirit” in various places, even to this day one of those articles can be easily found online.

ROSS ASKS ANOTHER QUESTION ON THE 12 TESTS

I heard Bryan Ross make a good question, if it was serious, he asked to the effect, if the tests didn’t come from doctrine explicitly, then why are they important. My answer is that they came from a mixture of KJBO doctrine, examination of historical editorial renderings and logic/common sense. In other words, it is clearly providential.

Here’s exactly what I did, I looked at 1 John 5:8 in my “modern” Cambridge KJV, it was “Spirit”. I then looked at a bunch of old KJVs. They had “spirit”. Then I thought about why could it be “spirit”, what was the meaning distinction. It is an evangelical doctrine, if you look at verse 9 it says about having a witness or knowing. Okay, I’m a Pentecostal who believes evangelical doctrine. Then it makes sense to me.

Also, 12 tests relating to the word “spirit” or “Spirit” case is one about faithfulness to the 1769 tradition, nothing to do with something changing there to “make” the PCE. Well, except that Matthew 4:1 and Mark 1:12 were changed, but that already existed in some other contemporary editions.

ROSS TRYING TO MIX UP ABOUT COPY-EDITING

The PCE was made in the early 1900s it seems. That Edition was printed in many editions. Each of those different editions of the PCE, while agreeing on an editorial level, may have typos or differ at some minor point on a copy-editorial level.

I took representative editions of the PCE, did copy-editing and made an exactly correct electronic text.

The PCE file on my website is not a new Edition because the editing that produced that Edition happened some time around the start of the 20^th century.

I hope I am being very clear to explain that an Edition is a set of editorial choices, and many editions of an Edition can exist. So, we have one edition, a text file, which represents and is a typographically correct copy of the Pure Cambridge Edition, but it is one edition, just like there were many printed vintage Bibles.

Ross overstrains this issue by using the word “non-identical”. He is trying to cast doubt on the Edition by looking at differences of an exceedingly minor nature in editions. So if one copy has “and” while another has “And”, he is saying that they are “non-identical”, which of course is technically true, but he is using it in a way to make it seem like the idea is “totally different” when the actual difference is not editorially significant, only significant in a copy-editing sense, where it was identified and dealt with.

Of course, words and letters are important, but the reason why Ross wants to major on these minors is because he is trying to frame the issue in light of his own created enemy category called “verbatim identicality”. I am of course not pigeon-holed in his false dilemma categories.

These minor copy-editing matters can be easily resolved, and that is what happened to create an exemplary form or copy of the Pure Cambridge Edition. This is what you can access through my Bible Protector website.

AGAIN ABOUT THE TESTS

It is interesting how that Ross thinks always according to the worst assumption. For example, he accused me of making the 12 tests to include 6 secret rejoinders to promote Pentecostal doctrine.

This of course is wrong.

I said that my deeper studies into those areas were made later than finding markers to identify the PCE out of a selection of other editions.

He then responded, and I summarise for clarity, If (Pentecostal) doctrinal commitments were not the reason for choosing the 12 tests, then why have them at all, wouldn’t they just be arbitrary?

I have already answered above, but I will again.

At that time, KJBO materials were producing some comparison tables or commenting on things in editions where they were upholding one and not another. In those tables were multiple entries for the word “Spirit”. These people were Baptists. There were several websites. Only one still exists today.

That’s how the tests were made: they came from the background of people mentioning these sorts of things for doctrinal reasons, they came from me looking at old editions and they came in the context of rejecting Americanised spelling/editing editions too.

While I obviously had a sense of the importance or agreement to the PCE’s correctness in these tests, I later decided to use these tests to really give a meaningful case for the correctness of the PCE, which was much more comprehensive. That was the in depth examination in my Guide to the PCE.

Ross just can’t help himself, he wants to criticise when I looked into these test areas. He says, “Here are the exact spots where you claim you had already settled the ‘correct’ PCE readings before bringing Pentecostal theology into it (i.e., text first, theology later)”.

Notice how he wrongly casts the tests as “correct PCE readings” when all readings in the PCE are correct and these things were just diagnostic tests to identify that a copy of the KJB is the PCE rather than being any other edition.

I then later used the tests as examples of why they would be correct. It’s not that these 12 places are particularly more correct or in themselves something vital, but because they represent a set of editorial readings.

They are not primarily about positive editorial changes being made, but are actually more the opposite, to counter the negative or alternative form. Yes, the other rendering would be “less pure” on an Edition level.

Do I need to say that the KJB’s translation and version-readings are pure, and that this is a different measure of purity?

If I say my collation or representation is “more pure” if measuring typographic accuracy than other editions, but I hope Bryan Ross does not just want to make out something bad.

Here’s a table:

The Scripture is more pure than other writings.

The KJB’s version is more pure than any TR or version.

The KJB’s translation is more pure than any other English Bible.

The PCE is a more pure Edition than any other Edition/edition.

Bible Protector’s text file and collation of the PCE is more pure than any other text file or representation.

So, the Pure Cambridge Edition is identifiable through a consistent set of editorial readings present in numerous Cambridge printings from the early twentieth century onward. The evidence of Cambridge printings shows that a stable editorial text existed in the early twentieth century. The identification tests were developed as a practical way of recognising that Edition among all settings or texts of the King James Bible.

ONE FINAL POINT

Ross is simply wrong when he says, “the PCE’s authority, in Verschuur’s system, depends not on evidence from the printing record but on the acceptance of his overarching Historicist, theological, and symbolic framework.”

Not only was I not a Historicist when I first knew about the PCE, but it is very evident that the entire argument is from the printing record. So Ross’ interpretation of the objective reality is wrong and his perspective leads him to frame my position incorrectly.

And a general thought: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Rom. 8:1).